Episode 26: Onboarding beyond compliance:
Designing moments that matter

Host: [00:00:00] Welcome to Talent Talks, the L&D podcast about the future of work and the talent driving it forward. The world of work is changing fast, from AI reshaping strategies to new definitions of success, and the push for people-first mindsets. Learning leaders are being asked to do more, do it better, and do it faster than ever before. Together, let’s learn, relearn, and sometimes even unlearn what L&D can look like in today’s world. I’m your host, Gina Lionatos, and this is Talent Talks.

Talent Talks is brought to you by TalentLMS, the easy-to-use training platform that delivers real business results from day one. Learn more at talentlms.com.[00:01:00] 

On today’s episode, 

Amin Fard: I like to design a process where you make it likely for people to write on LinkedIn how amazing their pre-boarding experience has been. If you think, what would make people say wow. And then you design it backward. 

Host: We’re going beyond the paperwork and passwords of the traditional onboarding experience and asking – what do the first few months at a job say about an organization?

Joining me is Amin Fard, co-author of The Onboarding Playbook and CEO at Preppio. Together, we’ll explore the future of onboarding. Looking at the tech, streamlining the experience, why connection is key to employee retention, and how the early days of a job are a critical time to show a company’s culture in action.

Stay with us.[00:02:00] 

Hello Amin, and welcome to Talent Talks. 

Amin Fard: Hi Gina. Thank you for having me. 

Host: So, Amin, you’ve been, uh, dedicating a lot of your time and indeed a whole book to the onboarding experience. From your perspective as a CEO and also somebody who’s deeply embedded in the employee experience space, how has the shift to hybrid and remote work changed what good onboarding looks like?

Amin Fard: So I think, uh, what happened, especially during the COVID years, was that a lot of companies learned the hard way, that it was really hard to keep employees if they didn’t create connection really early on. So I think, uh, it just emphasized the importance of the most critical parts of the, let’s say, the human aspect, because the compliance aspect of onboarding would kind of work, the paper process, you know, sending the laptop.

But [00:03:00] then, I think, what people learned is how much it hurts when people don’t feel connected from very early stage. I think that’s one thing that we’ve seen in the market. 

Host: Absolutely. And you know, as we look forward as well, Gen Z, who will, you know, by 2030 be a third of the workforce, is really craving that emotional connection at that starting point.

So, I think you’ve touched on something that’s relevant right now, but will continue to be down the track. I think that now more than ever, companies are really starting to treat onboarding as more of a brand-defining moment, and for good reason. Those first few months on the job have a huge impact on productivity, engagement, and long-term retention.

 But for fast-scaling remote-first teams, building a solid onboarding experience can sometimes feel overwhelming. So, if we could talk about that starting point for a company that recognizes the value of onboarding, but needs to keep things lean, what would you [00:04:00] include in a sort of minimum viable onboarding program?

What are the absolute must-haves? 

Amin Fard: We write about that in the book, and we use some, we call it an onboarding maturity. So, where are you in that onboarding maturity, and level one is just basic compliance, right? Because if the basics aren’t right. It doesn’t matter if you come on the first day and there’s cake or whatever, right?

So, you would want to get the basics right. But I think as a minimum viable onboarding, what I would try to do is create connection, uh, and that should be done through the managers or someone else being responsible for introducing that new hire to all the relevant stakeholders and checking in with that new hire in before day one and then after.

So I would say create some process where every new hire [00:05:00] knows the different stakeholders in the organization. Uh, and if it’s a smaller company, that would happen naturally. But then you could create some, have lunch on day one. That’s like a minimum, minimum, all new hires should, uh, experience. But then there’s, of course, more and more you could add on top of that.

But that should be the bare, bare minimum. 

Host: Right. So, before we talk further about onboarding. Let’s take a step back and think a little bit about pre-boarding. So we often hear that the start of an onboarding journey starts as soon as a candidate has said yes. So, what can organizations do before the new hire has even set down to work that will get the onboarding experience off to a great start?

Amin Fard: What, uh, we think is the most important aspects and what we see drive the most results is building that should even start in the hiring process, is, uh, the expectations. So when you are starting a new job, [00:06:00] you start thinking about all the things that you would like to do, and if those expectations and those plans are being sent early, that makes it easier for the new hires to ramp up fast.

I think that’s something that a lot of companies are not doing, and it really drives impact. And then creating some sort of experience. So, for example, you could ask employees some personal information that would help them network faster and, and get to know more of the colleagues internally. So you could do like a survey, like what sports do you like?

You know, what’s your favorite music? Things like that. And then you can share it. Of course, every company needs to figure out what works for them. But, uh, there are many, many things you could do. The classic, like sending them, uh, a gift basket, things like that. And  I like to design a process where you make it likely for people to write on [00:07:00] LinkedIn, how amazing their pre-boarding experience has been.

If you think, what would make people say, wow and then you design it backwards. So it’s different for different stakeholders and different companies, but I think that’s the mindset that companies should have that. I don’t know if you’re familiar with, uh, employee net promoter score, but you would like to create promoters, and what do I need to do to create a really great first impression?

Host: That’s such a great point you made around, uh, the ENPS, uh, which is such a key indicator for an organization and for HR departments, and some really great outtakes there. I do remember my first day here at TalentLMS, and I was asked to share three fun facts about myself to share with my colleagues so that two or three days before I joined, uh, they were all familiar with, uh, the quirks of who I am.

And we still carry that through. So, every time we get a new hire joining, we learn something about them, and it really helps to break the ice, of course. It helps the new [00:08:00] hire feel, I guess, a little bit more familiar. Uh, and it gives people a nice, comfortable way to kind of say hi and get acquainted. So I think, um, that’s something that definitely works too.

Now, the first 90 days framework has long shaped how we approach onboarding, and at TalentLMS we recently ran an employee onboarding survey. And it shows that it’s much more than a ramp-up period, in fact. Nearly 40% of employees said that they had second thoughts about their new job during onboarding. So, it’s clear that onboarding cannot be considered to be just logistical.

It’s really an emotional turning point. Should we be reframing onboarding as the starting line of continuous learning? 

Amin Fard: I think, I think that’s a, a, a, yes, that’s like the short answer. But, um, if you think about what different companies have different people joining. So you could have a retail company, but then you could have a [00:09:00] remote startup.

So, how do you design an onboarding process that, uh, gets people to learn the key things they need to learn? And I think a missed opportunity, going back to pre-boarding, is actually pre-boarding, because you actually read every single thing that the company sends. If it’s something you feel is going to be needed when you join.

Once you, you start, then you will do more of the learning at work. And then I think that’s, just designing that learning path or learning journey, I think is, is critical. So, I think onboarding, and design thinking should be part of that. 

Host: Right, because ultimately, onboarding isn’t just about getting someone up to speed.

It’s about laying those foundations for trust, for growth, for long-term success from day one. And that foundation can’t really be built on process alone. It really depends on how intelligently we leverage the tools at our disposal. 

Amin Fard: Yeah. And, and, uh, an anecdote on that. [00:10:00] I think it’s, uh, Starbucks that used to do a quick survey of every single employee that joined to ensure compliance. So they had questions like, um, uh, if there’s trash on the floor, would you pick it up? Would you move it to the side? Or would you leave it there until you know the person who’s cleaning comes? And these compliant questions are based on like getting people to comply with the culture and the values of the company.

Because when you join, then of course you will say, I will pick it up. But then, when you’re in that stressful environment, you might not. So, by starting that learning journey and doing these things early on, they got, uh, more employees to keep a clean shop. So, I think that’s like examples of how companies have designed the learning and onboarding, of course, to do that.

Host: So let’s talk a little bit about tech. In our latest research study, we found something that was quite interesting. [00:11:00] Over half of the employees that we surveyed said that AI hadn’t played any role in their onboarding, not that they were aware of anyway. But with how fast AI is evolving, it’s unlikely to stay true for long, and it’s clear that we’re only just scratching the surface of what’s possible.

So, looking ahead from your perspective, Amin. What role do you believe AI should and will play in onboarding, and what can it actually help us to do better, smarter, or more meaningfully? 

Amin Fard: I think the use case for AI right now is different. So it could be, you know, that chatbot that could answer questions that new hires have, and that’s a very easy one.

But then you could do like a, a survey on what’s, what’s your goals, and then you could add the AI to follow up on those goals. So, I think that could be a natural part of onboarding. I think also the one-to-one meetings between managers and new hires, setting up that whole process [00:12:00] with by using AI, I think that’s going to be impactful.

And then also HR can faster create good onboarding processes using AI. So, that’s just some of the things that we’re seeing. And of course, having the AI live in tools where people already are. So if you are in your LMS, then you know there might be a chatbot there. Instead of you needing to go and do a course. Or in Slack or Microsoft Teams, there could be chatbots that would basically help you, uh, onboard yourself better to the organization as well.

Host: So it’s kind of that self-led part of the journey as well.

Amin Fard: Yeah. 

Host: Awesome. Now, in your book, you stress that onboarding tech is really only as powerful as the content and the strategy behind it. Is there any advice that you would give to a company that’s selecting tech or designing onboarding tech to ensure that they’re not just, you know, purchasing something based off of a feature list, but something that’s going to help them really drive engagement and [00:13:00] clarity.

I think every company is different, so they need to look at what is critical for them. So I often ask companies that we meet, what’s your current tool stack? And then I instantly know if they’re the right fit for us, because not all companies are the right fit for all kinds of tools, even though they’re great and have lots of features.

What we’ve learned, especially with the new generation entering the workforce, is they love quick communications, Snapchat, Instagram, that kind of feel. But then you’ve got the older generation that would perhaps watch a video that lasts 30 minutes. And, I think, if you are choosing a tool today, you should choose a tool that’s really easy for people to use.

You know, going back to the whole like consumerization of, of B2B technology, I think that’s, uh, something that all companies should really look for and ask questions from the salespeople or the vendors of [00:14:00] why is this built like this? Because I think it’s really easy to get people to just say, oh, it’s another app.

It’s another portal. It’s another thing. But then you do want things to work in the flow of work rather than being something to add on top of what they already have, because then the adoption will be lower. Especially for onboarding we, we’ve seen that, especially managers, they don’t wanna log into a separate tool or go into separate solutions.

So getting everything in the same solutions that they’re already using and making it easy for them to use it. 

Host: Yeah. So, integrating wherever it’s possible. 

Amin Fard: Yeah. 

Host: So, on this kind of area of tech, I guess it is a fine line because we know that some generations, for example, Gen Z, they really do want that human touch in the onboarding process.

And as I mentioned before, Gen Z, for example, will make up around a third of the workforce in five or six years from now. So, [00:15:00] how do we kind of balance automation with the human element in onboarding? Where should tech step in and lend a hand, and where should people lead? 

Amin Fard: We thought a lot about that question, and for now at least, I can’t predict, you know, what will happen in even two years.

But right now, we see that it’s helping managers do a better job of creating connection. So, for example, if you just get a quick message in Slack or Microsoft teams with, hey, you know, check in on your new hire. It’s been 30 days. That’s part of the onboarding program. That will make it easier for the manager to do its part, but then that’s the chatbot, right?

So the chatbot would proactively nudge the manager to do something, and then the employee, or send the text to the employee. Here’s a pre-written text that’s already, you know, it looks good. The manager can just send it to the new hire, and then [00:16:00] they’ve got their phone number and everything there, assisting the managers in creating that connection.

I think we’re seeing that work really well today, and I just don’t think that the AI will kind of take over that job. It will just assist the people who are using it to do a better job. Do more with less, basically. 

Host: Right. Assistant and manage, perhaps. 

Amin Fard: Yeah.

Host: So, obviously, onboarding has seen a lot of change in the face of hybrid and distributed teams, which you touched on before.

One of the standout insights from our latest onboarding report is that employees say the toughest part of onboarding isn’t paperwork or tools. It’s adjusting to a company’s culture, its values, and its ways of working. And in a world that is increasingly remote, hybrid, and also asynchronous, that makes sense. Without those hallway chats or those casual lunches, those informal moments of connection are certainly harder [00:17:00] to come by. So the question is, how do we design onboarding experiences that can build those moments in especially when the team is distributed? 

Amin Fard: (Dr) Talya Bauer, the scientist that I wrote the book with, she says that onboarding is taking an outsider and making them an insider. And being an outsider and becoming an insider, the company needs to use design thinking and figuring out how has this happened before in a successful way, and how can we replicate that and create a standard. 

So, that consistency in getting people to become part of the culture, and also bring their whole selves to work. I know that’s, um, that’s a term that’s debated these days, but like obviously people do a better job when they feel comfortable, and I think people, uh, managers, coworkers, et cetera, should try to onboard people, uh, by showing that they [00:18:00] care.

Just these basic human things, going back to how to win friends and influence people. I don’t know if you read that book, but like these basic things matter, and I think if you want to, especially with the new generation coming in or any new person coming into the workforce, you do want to give them confidence that they, uh, chose the right place to work and that they can succeed.

Host: And studies also show, and it’s quite a no-brainer, that work friendships can double the clarity that a new hire feels about their role. 61% of employees say that making friends is important during onboarding, obviously. And at Preppio, I know that you talk about creating moments that matter. I’d love to hear what that looks like for you in practice and how hybrid companies can do it well. 

Amin Fard: I think I listened to this podcast episode with Brian Chesky from Airbnb, and uh, it was really hard for them to get people to sleep [00:19:00] over at strangers’ houses. And then they used like this design principle where they mapped out that the customer journey, and then they started with like a one-star experience and then, you know, a two-star experience.

What, what does a three-star experience looks like? Like a hotel experience. That’s five stars. You know, some people have experienced that. That’s amazing. But what would a six-star experience look like? What would a seven-star experience look like? They actually mapped it out to a 12-star experience, and then based on that, they figured out what were the key moments that really matter. And based on that, they created the Airbnb journey of a host or someone that’s using their service in order to create customer champions. People would talk about staying over at an Airbnb, and that would promote their service.

And, I think, onboarding should be the same way. I think when you sign the [00:20:00] offer letter, just what would you tell your parents about, or your spouse about, or your, uh, you know, friends about? Like, that’s the moments that matter. Like, oh, I signed an agreement. That’s it? Nothing else? Maybe if you got, you know, some sort of positive digital offline feedback, that would be great. I think pre-boarding people are really anxious. They’re nervous. Anything you can do there, like a week before start. Day one, you come home from work. Of course you, uh, people will ask you, how was your first day at work? Like, it’s very natural if you think about it. But I think when signing the offer letter during pre-boarding, first day, first week.

First month, first three months, and six months. That’s the milestones that we’ve, you know, mapped out. And then we’ve created like different things companies can do during those milestones that truly [00:21:00] matter. And then, I know we’re talking about onboarding, but it’s the same way all companies should think about offboarding the same way. Because you do want people to be offboarded kind of the same way as they’ve been onboarded, like in a truly good way.

So they talk positively about your company when they leave. 

Host: Yeah, and it’s such a great point because I know that as businesses we spend so much time focusing on making our customers into champions and advocates, but why not focus on making our people, our employees, our greatest advocates? Uh, so I think there’s so much truth to that.

Now, on the flip side, while hybrid and remote onboarding often get flagged as challenging, especially when it comes to connection and culture, it’s certainly not all downside. We found something pretty interesting in our onboarding report, which was employees who were onboarded in a hybrid model actually reported the highest satisfaction when it came to [00:22:00] opportunities to connect with new colleagues.

This is ahead even of in-person onboarding. And my gut feel is that organizations have to be a lot more intentional about onboarding when they are in a hybrid model. So, I’m curious, do you think that hybrid onboarding is unlocking new advantages when it comes to the processes and the steps that we can take?

Amin Fard: Well, if you think about onboarding, the company is kind of like a tribe, and then it’s the rites of passage. You’re joining this organization, and I think what happens in a lot of workforces where people show up at the office is that it becomes normal for people. Oh, it’s just, Gina just started. It’s not a big deal.

It just happens all the time. But maybe, I’m not sure, but in a hybrid workforce maybe you have offsites. But, or maybe you’re aware that, you know, we can’t meet Gina, so we need to actually do an effort and it makes [00:23:00] the whole onboarding more special. And maybe that has something to do with it. But, um, I’ve heard companies who do it really well and do it really bad in all different, like no matter how they work. So I think it’s more like a cultural thing. 

Host: And this links back actually to something you mentioned in your book, that many onboarding programs still focus far too heavily on compliance, often at the expense of connection and confidence. So the other Cs, For companies that are still stuck in that compliance-first mindset, what’s one, just one practical shift that they can make tomorrow to rebalance their approach?

Amin Fard: Well, if I have to say one thing, I would say that it starts from the top, and it’s a hard one, right? Because if your company is all about compliance, getting that you know C-level buy-in, uh, CEO, buy-in to, hey, we need to actually do something different in order to attract, [00:24:00] engage, and retain top talent. So I think if one thing getting C-level to say, yes, this is important, let’s do it.

Because if not, then people don’t feel like we care, and then they won’t care. And if you go back to like, one thing I would do from if I was HR or L&D, I would get managers measured. Measure what matters, right? So if managers knew that all new hires, let’s say, were rating them or giving feedback to the company about their onboarding experience, what we’ve seen is that really helps with the culture of onboarding because managers they like to score if they’re being measured.

So that’s another trick that you can use. 

Host: So, as a manager, I can relate to that comment. Um, we’ve talked a little bit about managers, and it brings us to a really important and perhaps often overlooked question around ownership. So when it comes to [00:25:00] creating really effective onboarding, who is it that’s truly responsible?

Is it HR who are setting the processes and the structure? Is it L&D who create the content and the learning journey? Or is it those middle managers who are there day-to-day, guiding new hires through their first real experiences on the job?

Amin Fard: I think we wrote in the book that it takes a village to onboard, and stakeholders have different responsibilities, and I think they should work together.

The design thinking aspect should be HR L&D with one or two managers, and using the employee experience, and then designing back from that. That would be like a great workshop to do in order to set the tone and the service level that you want to have in your organization. The HR and L&D team should create great content. [00:26:00] Uh, IT should definitely be involved in how to facilitate, like getting everything that needs to be done in time. So they should all work together. And um, I think when the companies are orchestrating a great experience with all these different, uh, stakeholders. That’s when the employee really feels like this company knows what they’re doing.

And I think that also goes back to like how I, as an employee should be delivering at this place. Because when I talk to companies that have really strong culture, really, like they just know what they’re doing, I learned that the onboarding process was kind of a, a result of their culture. 

Host: And I suppose the way that you run your onboarding is a reflection of the way things run within the business.

So that’s kind of a really simple way to sum it up. Let’s talk a little bit about metrics and success. So when it comes to onboarding, especially in hybrid environments, it can be [00:27:00] tricky to know what’s actually working. So, beyond completion rates or checklists, and I know you mentioned manager scores, for example, what signals should companies really be paying attention to? 

Amin Fard: We talked a bit about, uh, employee net promoter score. I think you could do ENPS survey after six months, and that could be a good metric. You could, uh, also do a rating of how the onboarding works. At Preppio, we have created a six C survey. So we use indirect questions to measure how the company’s scoring against the six Cs.

And we know from 20 years of, uh, research that these are the most important factors for things like turnover, time to productivity, and employee engagement. So, you could measure those things directly, although they might be polluted because turnover can be hard to measure. But, uh. [00:28:00] I think that’s how, how we do it at least.

Host: Could you run us through the six Cs? 

Amin Fard: So you’ve got, um, compliance, which is the basic C that needs to be there. The most important C that, uh, a lot of companies are missing out on is, uh, connection. Like the companies who really do that well have lower turnover in their organization. You’ve got the one that’s hardest to measure, but it’s really important, and that’s culture.

I think the one that’s most are overlooked by managers is clarification. So ensuring that people know what is expected of them. ‘cause we’ve seen a lot of studies where employees feel like, oh, I’m a hundred percent productive, you know, is all is good. But then the manager, well this person is not where they should be.

Check back. That’s really critical also for getting that feedback loop going. So the, you can continuously improve. [00:29:00] I talk about this every single day. But I don’t remember which one, I said. Clarification, confidence, connection, culture, check back.

Host: Confidence.

Amin Fard: Confidence, yeah, that’s an important one as well. And I think confidence is two-sided.

One is like you chose the right place to to work. That’s really important in the early days where people are, I’m not sure. But also giving them confidence that they are actually, going to be succeeding at this work by giving them some simple tasks maybe in the early days so they can get, get some quick wins.

That’s a good trick there. 

Host: So let’s, uh, look a little to the future. Let’s look into our crystal ball of onboarding. If we fast forward to a new hire joining an organization in 2035, how do you think that experience and what’s important within the onboarding experience will be different from what it is today? What are you hoping to see as a standard by that point?

And if we look at those six Cs, do we still think [00:30:00] connection will be king, will be the most important component of onboarding? Or do we think that mix may have changed? 

Amin Fard: Hmm. I think it’s hard to know what the future brings, but I like to go back in history. I like, uh, what have humans always like, what are the core motivations in humans?

And I would think that’s going to be the same. Like we’re not changing. Maybe the society around us changes. So if you just think about like there’s more anxiety now than before, then maybe confidence is more important. But I think these six Cs, I think they’re going to be the same six in 10 years and in a hundred years, as long as there are humans doing the work.

But then maybe what’s most important might change. So I think human connection right now I think is, that’s the one that at least Talya Bauer in her research sees the biggest impact. Uh, and I don’t think that’s going to change in the next [00:31:00] 10 years. So maybe a disappointing answer, but uh, yeah, 

Host: I think the need for connection will always be there.

And 10 years from now, perhaps even more so. Is there something from onboarding in today’s world that you think we can kind of leave in the past in 10 years from now, and you’d be okay to see it go from the onboarding process? 

Amin Fard: Oh, yeah,  I hope a lot of the compliance things, like no one likes to do that, and it’s so boring and it takes time.

So just getting, getting those basic things done faster and without all the hassle. And yes, I think the, the compliance, I, I hope that it’s much easier. 

Host: Amin, thank you so much for joining us. I think we’ve explored some really nice insights around onboarding today, and I’m sure that our listeners are going to leave with ideas that they can apply from day one or maybe even from before their next new hire’s first day.

So thank you for being part of Talent Talks, and yeah, thanks for your time today. 

Amin Fard: [00:32:00] Thank you, Gina.

Host: Train for the skills of today and tomorrow. TalentLibrary brings you over 1000 ready-made courses on the skills that matter most, from onboarding to soft skills and compliance. Each 15-minute course is designed by experts, always up to date, and ready to roll out through TalentLMS. It’s training that fits your teams, your goals, and your schedule.

Thanks for tuning in. In the next episode, we’ll be talking about how to scale your L&D programs with less resources. You can find Talent Talks on all podcast platforms. Subscribe now so you don’t miss an [00:33:00] episode.

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